Curse

TheDragoon · Sep 01, 2006, 06:17 AM // 06:17

It's similar. It's more like Sone Online Entertainment. Remember Everquest? Gunbound?

Spallenzani · Sep 01, 2006, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

The downside to this is> Veteran players have worked VERY HARD to unlock a lot of skills on their accounts, and now players don't need to do any work to do the same, just pull out the old credit card, and yell, "I'm using Charge!"

Veteran players care a lot more about increasing the size and quality of the competitive player pool than about their own sunk costs of time invested.

Cute pun, though.

Incidentally, like most things that happen in GuildWars, a similar controversy already took place in the Magic: The Gathering community years ago. Just as GuildWars must cater to both the pvp and pve community, so too Magic must cater to both the competitive players and the collectors. In both games, there is significant overlap between the two groups, and in both games, the interests of both groups often conflict with each other.

The relevant controversy in this case relates to the Type 1 format in magic. Unlike other formats, which rotate out older cards to make room for newer cards, Type 1 includes all of the printed sets. The problem is that as a collectable, many of the most useful cards from these older sets cost hundreds of dollars a piece, and the best decks often require an investment of thousands of dollars.

This obviously limits the available pool of competitive Type 1 players. And many of these veteran competitive players are so desperate for a larger pool of competiters that "they are willing to watch their cards devalue if it allows others easier access to Type I."

Luckily, GuildWars isn't a collectable card game, and "reprinting" older sets in GuildWars by selling UAS doesn't interfere with the non-competitive side of the community. As Rahja pointed out, the only people this could theoretically effect are veteran pvp players. But, unlike Magic, there is no market for previous unlocks (apart from UAXed accounts on eBay), so the time spent is a sunk cost. We are just happy to see the pool of competitive players expand through efforts to make it easier and faster for new players to get up to speed.

manaleak34 · Sep 01, 2006, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Question.

I know lots of people have been asking if you need Prophecies to use the skills.

This brings up another thing. Not I'm not 100% sure but can't you play the 'Core' areas such as PvP areas without buying either game?

If this is true, then one could simply download the cilent, buy the prophecies skills and be good to go for PvP.

I think it's fine. I don't understand why most people are complaining so much.

But hey I guess this fourm is famous for that.

Henchman · Sep 01, 2006, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Buying Skills for REAL money- This is terrible!
Skills are earned by being a good player, not by taking out your credit card.
Its like saying, "I don't need to study for school, I'll just pay my teachers to get a good grade."

For those who are complaining that getting skills is a grind, even if this was true, there are better solutions than selling the skills for real money. For example, faction gain through wins could be increased allowing skills to be aquired at faster pace.

Why not sell lvl 20 chars, ingame gold, and top-stat weapons as well? It exactly the same thing- giving an advantage to those who are willing to pay with real money.

I think a good idea would be allowing players to buy (with real money), access to skills from other expansions. The skills however, would have to be unlocked for use in the traditional way. This would allow hardcore PvPers to keep up with entire community without having to purchase every expansion. But this doesn't look like its going to happen.

This is truely IMO a low point for Anet, and makes me reconsider purchasing Nightfall. By the time Nightfall is released, Anet will probably offer even more "pay-per advantage" products, ruining the game for those who choose to play the game, rather then buying their through it, like myself.

manaleak34 · Sep 01, 2006, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henchman

Its like saying, "I don't need to study for school, I'll just pay my teachers to get a good grade."

And you think those people are going to get far in life with no education? You can't buy the knowlege to play the game right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henchman

Why not sell lvl 20 chars and top-stat weapons as well?

Funny thing is, they do. They're called PvP characters. And guess what? They're Free!!

Pjstaab · Sep 01, 2006, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Gw is going down hill. The mm nerf was too much. EOE nerf was uncalled for, all they had to do was make it that your invincible or something or cant gain points before AB starts. Now you can buy all the skills and your Uber. How fun is it going against someone who can come up with a perfefct build whenever they want and totally pwn. I might have to find another game to play. Anet isn't taking any more of my money.

Azrael1309 · Sep 01, 2006, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Although I am personally opposed to this, its not all that bad. People that are super busy with school or work that don't want to grind gold can have an alternate way to get skills. And for those that are lazy, well, let them have their skills. It still takes time to learn a build of a character and its scope within the team. Though, with the premades and the same builds used a lot, maybe not, but unlocking all skills won't make a diff there.

Also, with all the skills at disposal, I'm hoping (really, really hoping) that PvP might begin to diversify again instead of the same gimmick builds over and over (although I don't feel it'll happen anytime before Nightfall).

I personally feel that buying skills with cash is nonsense. But if someone else wants to do it. Fine. You may have more skills, but I get to drink just a little more beer :-)

Spallenzani · Sep 01, 2006, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDragoon

From a business point of view, it is reasonably understandable that extra storage/slots cost money because we defend ANET that it might cost them additional database storage as well as storage for logs etc. So the pricing seem reasonable because there is a mark up over an explicit cost.

Now as for the Unlock Skill, I question the "cost" that is involve in implementing this to each individidual beside a small script is run. So basically, this product is sold purely on the perception of how much the player NEED.

From a "business point of view", prices are determined by supply and demand, not by production costs. Congratulations, you just discovered Econ 101.

JR · Sep 01, 2006, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguo

I'm losing faith.....Some people may have wanted it, but this ruins most pvp! Anybody can do mosts builds because they payed 40$? I HATE it.

PvP = Skill not time. Thanks, bye.

TheDragoon · Sep 01, 2006, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Go back and learn your Econ 101 son and this time read the whole text book.
Price = markup + fix cost + variable cost
Supply and demand fluctuate the markup.
Read about how, the demand is created by the company that supply the product, like selling anti-virus while making virus. It's call unethical.

Spallenzani · Sep 01, 2006, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pjstaab

How fun is it going against someone who can come up with a perfefct build whenever they want and totally pwn.

OMG, I know just what you mean. Every time I enter a pvp match it's as if the other team has full unlocks AND knows exactly which skills to use to make THE PERFECT BUILD. Anet, please stop this!

Quote:

Originally Posted by manaleak34

And you think those people are going to get far in life with no education?

They got far enough to post here.

TheDragoon · Sep 01, 2006, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

PvP = Skill not time. Thanks, bye.

Time = money

Gli · Sep 01, 2006, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Remember all the time PvP people have posted: "If you're not playing PvP you're only playing half the game?"

That line works both ways. Well, it used to work both ways.

Pre 'pay $$$ for your skills' era, GW was a game that combined PvP and PvE in a single package. People playing 'the whole game' never had any trouble unlocking what they needed to PvP.

Now, PvP-ers can get away with playing only 'half the game', and where there always were some cracks, I predict the whole thing will irrevocably split right down the middle now.

And don't get me wrong, I think it's a good thing. If I never encounter bored PvP enthousiasts in the PvE game again, it'll be too soon.

___________________

Edit: I do agree that adding rare crafting materials to the online store makes as much sense as unlocks, from a 'the whole game' perspective. As I stated above, the game was designed in a certain way. This design had people playing to earn their unlocks. People can now pay to skip playing part of the game. Buying ectos would just be paying to skip another part of the game.

TheDragoon · Sep 01, 2006, 07:12 AM // 07:12

really? even though Pvp bring boring area like Jade quary and Fort Aspenwood back to life? And most of the skill you learn for PvE is from PvP players?

n0odle · Sep 01, 2006, 07:19 AM // 07:19

10 bucks for another slot pwns this hard, j00

manaleak34 · Sep 01, 2006, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Well now that the agrument seems to be on price lets look at some numbers!

Lets compare the prices of playing Guild Wars and your usual MMORPG.

Now both games start selling retail at around $50 US which is mostly the norm for video games these days

Now of course we have our good old monthy fee. Now most monthy fees are about $15. So if someone started paying, say WoW from day one they would have payed about...$315. Up to this point just to play the game. And for me, If I had started playing some plain old MMORPG instead of GW(which I started paying in Feb 06) I would have to had paid $105 extra up to this point.

Mind you this $15 dollar is Mandatory so if you can't shell out the cash. Tough luck, no game for you.

In fact it only takes about 3 months plus the full $50 game in a regular MMO to equal the price paid if you got both GW games at full price.

In all honesty if I was an evil game company wanting to make more money. I would FORCE this payment. But hey! Don't want to buy it? No big deal! Just keep doing what you've been doing.

This will not unbalance things. Just because you have the tools, it doesn't mean you have the skills.

I think it's great. You got Factions but don't feel like playing though the orginal Campaign to get those much needed PVP skills? Thats ok! Just pay what you would normally play for the orginal GW and save yourself some time.

This isn't the end of the world everyone.

Gli · Sep 01, 2006, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDragoon

And most of the skill you learn for PvE is from PvP players?

What's that supposed to mean? I'm a reading this right and are you suffering from some kind of messiah-complex?

manaleak34 · Sep 01, 2006, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by manaleak34

And you think those people are going to get far in life with no education?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spallenzani

They got far enough to post here.

That comment has nothing to do with the debate at hand. Your simply just resorting to insults at this point.

Mouse at Large · Sep 01, 2006, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Unless GW has a means of making this compulsory, then it's simple. If you don't like it - don't use it.

GW/ArenaNet is not a charity. What's worse, giving players a choice as to whether to spend more money or at some point having to pay regular subscriptions to play (which may come) or the servers being shut down due to lack of money to continue?

I've read a lot (but not all) the comments in this thread, and some of the complainers sure don't seem to live in the same real world I do

Energizer Deth Buni · Sep 01, 2006, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Oh let the Noobs buy there Skills online. They ll just realize how much money they wasted when they are laying on there backs looking at the ceiling.

ANET 10 bucks per char for full FOW armor works for me.... It ll catch us up to all the grinders and put an end to some of the Squirrel Farmers...